Episode 33: Amy Heymans
In this episode, Lisa Welchman and Andy Vitale speak with Design Leader, Amy Heymans. Amy is a designer, futurist, visionary, and innovator focused on collaboratively designing a better future. She shares insights about her career path and the importance of being human-centered as both a leader and designer.
Amy Heymans believes that purpose driven design can improve the human condition. She is a designer, futurist, visionary, and innovator focused on collaboratively designing a better future. She applies her expertise in improving experiences as a strategy consultant, leadership advisor, speaker, writer, teacher, and facilitator. She works with those interested in finding their purpose, aligning with the people they serve, crafting a brave vision, and transforming their organization in the direction of that vision. She is both knowledgeable and passionate about health, financial wellbeing, social impact, and sustainability.
Amy is a leader and successful entrepreneur. Before becoming an independent consultant, she co-founded Mad*Pow in 2002 and nurtured its growth into a leading global strategic design consultancy that delivers positive social impact and business outcomes.
References & Links
Health Experience Design Conference
Massachusetts College of Art and Design
Follow Amy Heymans on Social Media
LinkedIn
Transcript
Andy Vitale:
Hey Lisa, we just had an amazing conversation with Amy Heymans who really talked about people and how we solve problems for people, and doing so at such a scale where there's hundreds of thousands of people in the organization and millions of people that are customers of her company at UnitedHealthcare. Interesting stuff.
Lisa Welchman:
Yeah, it was. I was really inspired by her, and as I mentioned in the podcast, seems like the type of person that I would want to work with. Seems completely human-centered, 360 degrees, not just about the products that they're designing and delivering for the people that use them, but also for the organization and their team. So I think it's going to be really insightful and I think people will take a lot away from this episode. So I hope everyone enjoys it.
Well, welcome Amy Heymans. It is a delight to see you. Our podcast folks can't see you, but we can as well. I believe that we might have met before in passing because I spoke when you were still with Mad*Pow, I think even before the acquisition at the health conference. Is that happened maybe in Boston and I'm making that up.
Amy Heymans:
No, you're absolutely right. Yeah, we hosted the Health Experience Design conference ever since 2011. The latest one was this year. So yeah, I bet that's right. I knew you looked familiar.
Andy Vitale:
And we also met in person the same exact way at the same conference. Well, actually both. I met Lisa at a conference and Amy at a conference. Amy at the Mad*Pow one, Lisa one in Cleveland.
Lisa Welchman:
That's right. Andy, you and I really still have only met once, correct, in real life.
Andy Vitale:
Yes.
Lisa Welchman:
I'm going to jump in and we've already alluded to Mad*Pow, but we want to ask you, what's your current role, and kind of hear about your journey to get you to where you are right now. Part of the season two focus for us is to talk to a lot of different types of people who work in and around the digital maker community in leadership roles and functional hands-on roles and just to find out about their journey. So can you tell us about yourself?
Amy Heymans:
Yeah, absolutely. So right now I am chief design officer at UnitedHealthcare. So I oversee a team of about 100 designers. And I joined UnitedHealthcare because I really wanted to roll my sleeves up and solve some tangly, gnarly, wicked problems, systemic problems from the inside out.
I am very passionate about health, improving health outcomes, but also helping people to navigate our health ecosystem because it's a bit of a mess. People are on their own trying to figure it all out, and we really have a big opportunity to bridge some of those gaps and be there when folks need us most. And so I believe in the power of design to improve experiences and improve health outcomes and solve systems problems at scale.
So I was super excited because UnitedHealthcare has 400,000 employees. We serve hundreds of millions of Americans. And so the opportunity to see that impact at scale is something very real with UnitedHealthcare.
Lisa Welchman:
I'm curious about this move from the outside to in. I think that we see this type of going back and forth for all sorts of people; people who worked at an agency who then went in-house and worked, people who were in-house and went outside. What are some of the most surprising things are that you've learned being on the inside that were very, very different than what you thought they might be?
Amy Heymans:
Yeah, there's a few things that were very different. Number one, going from a company of 70 or 80 people to 400,000. So just the enormity. And then going from an agency to a corporation, a matrixed environment, that's very complex. And going from being an entrepreneur to having a boss.
And my biggest concern was am I going to be able to have a boss? Do I have it in me? And so I really thought a lot about that. And what I discovered was if that boss is legit, if I believe in them and their vision, then I will work very hard to help them accomplish that vision. And that really has played out.
We have a really bold vision and mission, and we have leadership that is phenomenal, and actually I'm learning quite a bit from. Their leadership is making me a better leader. And after 20 years in an agency, sort of having mastered the mechanics of agency life, I was really wanting and craving new challenges.
Now, I will say the role I performed in my agency was more of growth. I oversaw sales, I oversaw marketing, I oversaw our growth strategy and partnership with my business partners, of course, and others at the business. Operations wasn't something that I did a lot of. And so it was a lot of thought leadership and then a tiny bit of operations on the growth side.
Here, it's 95% administrative and operations just because of the size of the team, and that's taught me a lot. I will say that the entrepreneurial energy serves me well. The prioritization of people and relationships and just getting to know people, meeting them, serving them well, that sort of entrepreneurial startup, like get stuff done, make stuff happen, really does serve me well on the corporate side because it's huge and it can be complex, so you really need to be driven in the direction of making change because it can be a little difficult.
Andy Vitale:
That's so interesting because as you work for a large company in a really high position, I see this here, we've got tens of thousands of people, you've got hundreds of thousands of people, so the scale is slightly different. But as a leader of a function in that space, you also have to take on another role that's being a leader for the entire organization, not just your function. So aside from the entrepreneurial spirit that you've talked about, I'm curious what seemingly unrelated skill or expertise do you have that helps you be successful in your role as you look at it from both the craft side and the overall organizational leadership side.
Amy Heymans:
Yeah, it's funny you asked about my strengths. My weaknesses are very much front of mind right now, so I'm going to have to challenge myself to think about those strengths.
One of them is just laughing and having a good time and really getting to know people. I mean, we're on this ride, we're trying to make an impact. Sometimes we're stuck in things that we don't quite understand. So to really, with gratitude, appreciate the human beings that we're on this block with and have a good time while we're at it. I think that attitude serves me well. I can insert a bit of levity, but also a seriousness when it comes to what we're doing. And tying what we're doing, not to some administrivia, but to the larger impact we're going after.
We have amazing call center associates, we call them advocates because they're advocating for the health and wellbeing of our members. Those advocates are on the phone with people. They're hearing their voices, they're hearing them when they're upset, when they're sad, when they're happy. They're guiding them through a successful journey, hopefully. And so they're hearing that. We, on the design side, one of the main goals is to be inclusive, to co-create with members, to co-create with advocates. And so we meet people face-to-face, but it's not as often. And when we put a new digital solution or an enhanced service experience into the marketplace and it impacts millions of people, we don't see those people.
So when we're working really, really hard and it's tough and it's hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel, I think one of the things I try to do is to shine a light on the real human impact so that it's all worth it, it's worth fighting the good fight.
So that blend of humor I think, and a little bit of inspiration serves me well. Also, I'm a list maker. It's all about the list. And when trying to accomplish things at scale, I realize that it's about here's what we need to do, who's going to own it from a kind of thought leadership and thought partnership perspective and from an ops perspective, who's literally going to make sure we're pushing the ball down the field. And then templates, providing templates that people can fill in. And then cadences and communication.
So it's more about the structure and the process because literally one person can't do it all. So how do we engage the larger team in getting to the goals that we're setting out to achieve?
Andy Vitale:
Nice. I do have to ask a nerdy list follow-up question. Is your list on paper, is it on a digital tool? Where do you keep and manage this list? And just a little list-making tips I guess.
Amy Heymans:
Yes, I have no tips. I have a great deal of shame right now for where I keep my list. I have 52 post-it notes right now that I need to get into some manageable kind of list. But I think even the act of writing, whether you're typing, whether you're writing, can sort of congeal and fortify notions in your mind and kind of solidifies a mental list that you then kind of work on prioritizing.
So in some ways the list reduces the overwhelm because you're like, all right, I got it all on paper. It's organized. But then it can lead to overwhelm when the list gets too long. So it's an ongoing journey there.
Lisa Welchman:
I just wanted to follow up with a couple of beats back and throw some admiration your way. I loved that you talked about the experiences that you're creating for the people that are in the world that you're creating, this healthcare experience, and that you're calling them people and humans and not users.
Amy Heymans:
Absolutely.
Lisa Welchman:
It's actually really lovely to hear that sort of natively come out of your mouth that way. And so I just wanted to notice that in front of you.
Amy Heymans:
Thank you. It's very intentional. And we're facing a challenge industry-wide where digital is a threat through everything, and human-centered design hits digital in the form of user-centered design and user experience and research and testing. We can be so digitally focused because it's a necessity. It's like the air we breathe. It's standard operating procedure for our businesses now in terms of how they interact with their constituencies.
But we need to again, intentionally elevate beyond the self-service transactions and the utility and see how that digital thread weaves into people's lives. During that, the life moments that matter. How do we show up for people? For us in health during that health journey, how do we show up for people, not just as an insurance company but as human beings interacting with human beings?
And I think it rings true for me, just the name of the US Department of Health and Human Services, we're serving human beings. And health is core to our existence on this planet. We focus on health outcomes. We also focus on financial wellbeing and improving financial outcomes. Health insurance is kind of the perfect overlap of the two. So we really need to be cognizant of the downstream impacts, and design for those.
Lisa Welchman:
I think that's so core and integral to a lot of things. I mean, this is a good segue into our next question, which is there's a lot of challenges in the way digital experiences are happening online right now. I love this journey aspect, which we're all aware of. Some people refer to it as customer journey, but it's this journey that human beings make when they're trying to get work done, when they're trying to navigate their lives. And as we've become more and more sophisticated with our use of digital, that's just become integrated with the real world. It's all one blend. It's not just multi challenge, it's multi experience. It is the experience.
And so what do you think somebody in your position can do to help, you already alluded to this, change some of the negative dynamics of what's happening with this digital experience in particular and amplify the good things and get rid of the bad things? You started talking about that already in terms of thinking holistically about this experience and helping people out and being human-centered. But what else do you think that are things even outside your arena of healthcare, just some general trends of what you think people who are working in this space, makers in this space, leaders in the digital space can do?
Amy Heymans:
Yeah, absolutely. I mentioned that in digital, we're sort of one degree removed from the human beings we serve. So it is essential to reduce that space as much as possible to include, to invite, to bring close the people we serve, not just once, but on an ongoing basis.
So I'm a huge believer in research, co-creation, testing, to be mindful of it. And again, not just formative and evaluative research, but also again that co-creation, designing with constituencies. And sort of gradually over time reducing this sort of business or designer elitism, so to speak, to think that we know the answer when we do not have the same lived experiences as folks who are going to be interacting, who are going to be experiencing, who are going to be impacted by these solutions.
So bringing the people close in partnership, also shining a light on what they care most about. So the adage, what gets measured, gets managed. Okay, then what are we measuring? Is the measure close to what success looks like for the person? Because our definition of success and their definition of success may be different. How do we hold both together and see how they map up?
So there's this notion of the United States, I think estimates that billions of hours per year are spent by US citizens filling out paperwork for the US government. I don't know anybody who likes filling out paperwork. Maybe a measure that matters is actually reduction of administrative burden that we put on US citizens. That might not be a goal or a measure that folks in the government would've went after had they not had the citizen mindset front and center.
So co-creation measures and also storytelling to be honest, to weave those threads of, okay, here are the digital transactions, here's the mindset, here's what's going on in the person's life, here's their journey, here's where the things intersect and where we can provide value.
I think also hope, to be honest. I think sometimes we feel really stuck in our box of what we can influence and what we can change. And I think bold vision and action is required. For companies like cable companies or insurance companies, it's like, oh my, maybe we're not performing in terms of what people would expect of us because insurance is hard to understand or people resent their cable company. How can we even earn the right to have people trust us or to walk in relationship with them as a valued partner? Realizing that dream seems so far off. But I believe that we can start to, through design, define how we're going to really show up for people and actually get there.
And we almost have a power of inception too. Screenshots are currency in a large organization. And if you, through human-centered design, put great ideas on screenshots, it's almost like business inception. People will latch onto it because they want, crave in their hearts and in their minds the kinds of things that we're thinking about. And when we put it on a screen, it just makes it seem real and it makes the abstract concrete. And so I think that's one of our secret superpowers.
Andy Vitale:
When we met earlier, I think two of the things that are most interesting that are related to what you're talking about that you were working on is there was a huge emphasis in behavior design, but also I remember this code of ethics that you were working on and how important it is for designers, especially in the healthcare space, to have these guidelines of what we do and how we can actually solve problems in a way that makes sense and makes an impact and isn't causing harm in any way. And I remember some vivid conversations around that. I just wanted to know if you wanted to touch on any of those facets a little bit.
Amy Heymans:
Yeah, definitely. I'll start with ethics. Moral philosophy, ethics. We have empathy. Empathy is core to human-centered design. And there's cognitive empathy and there's emotional empathy. Cognitive empathy is I can understand what you're going through and make decisions that hopefully will help you. Emotional empathy, it creates some sort of motivation within you and you want to, you're inspired to, you're motivated to take action that will benefit another. Compassion I've heard defined as breathing with someone, just the presence, which I think is important, this human presence when we're living in a digital world.
But empathy of course is not enough. How do we codify empathy? How do we bring it into our work? And I think ethics and moral philosophy is the bridge from empathy into action and impact. So to formulate design principles that are inspired by ethics, to understand the harm that we might be doing, the downstream negative impacts, unintended consequences, to consider how things might go wrong, and to set out to avoid those things. But then also to think about what would be the best thing? How could we actually show up for people?
Again, it's really easy to imagine the apocalypse, but it's sometimes hard to imagine the inverse. I think a commitment to ethics can help us get there. So for example, if we want to reduce pain, what does that look like? What is the pain that's being experienced? How might we reduce that pain? If we want to be a source of joy or to promote joy or to celebrate joy, what does that look like?
So you can move from a commitment to ethics, do no harm, to principles that then you can ideate around. And I think we are at a deficit in design in terms of our process and artifacts associated with ethics. It sort of burns true in our hearts. But how to communicate it, how to incorporate it, I think is a rich and open field for us to now go into and build some establishment.
Lisa Welchman:
Amy, it's such a delight to listen to you and pleasure to listen to you talk. What I'm really hearing, which is unusual to hear, is the ways that you are integrating your own personal skillset, which is rich with creativity and a design background, and you're applying that to the way that you lead.
Andy and I were talking actually before we started recording this, about design leadership and how it's oftentimes design leaders really lean into design, and the leading part is harder for them. So it's hard for them to drop the design component and enough to actually be a super strong leader for other designers. And what I'm hearing out of you is all of it, which is not only you know what you're talking about obviously in your discipline, but you're also taking those skills and reinventing yourself and creating yourself into the type of person that I would love to work with, the type of person who is understanding why you're doing the job. And you're also creating this environment that's healthy and good for other people to work in. And I think that's really, really lovely.
Amy Heymans:
Thanks Lisa. And we should work together more because you make me feel good inside.
Lisa Welchman:
We can always have check-ins when you need to feel good inside. You know how to get in touch with me.
Amy Heymans:
Awesome. I love it. Yeah, I mean, I've said before I believe that we are the design. It's about the work, it's about the solution, it's about the medium and the craft. But it's about us, how we interact with one another, and the ideas that sort of reverberate in our community through workplaces, one-on-one discussions, podcasts like this one, events.
I always harken back to, I studied art in college, and I had the opportunity to study abroad in Paris. And I learned about the impressionist painters and went to all the museums. And they hung out together. They hung out together in Paris and they were smoking in cafés, discussing pointillism and all the things. I feel like that's us. We're together, a movement, and the ideas propel us all forward. So we're sort of this neural network of designers trying to make an impact.
Andy Vitale:
Your professional journey from agency to in-house, there's been so many things and all of them have touched upon ways to impact humans, ways to impact people at scale. Just curious, looking back on this journey, what are a few things that you wish someone had told you when you started out?
Amy Heymans:
That's such a good question. I teach a class in leadership at Massachusetts College of Art and Design in their master's program in design and innovation leadership. It's the only publicly funded master's program in design in the country. And I love working with students in that program. As part of that program, we were looking at Gallup StrengthsFinder, because I think it's so important for all of us to understand our strengths.
I think I might be called something else now, but in the process of doing that, came to understand my strengths and also my weaknesses, which I think I was aware of. But the way that it put, okay, this is a blind spot for you and you're going to want to manage it this way, I'm like, oh my goodness, now you tell me. I wish I knew this 20 years ago. Things would've been a lot easier.
So for example, one of my strengths is strategy. I sort of work the puzzle pieces in my mind, then I see how they might all fit. But my blind spot is helping others to see it and patiently walking through the steps in doing the communication and the collaboration. I can't just be like, "There, we should go there," and expect everybody to see and understand what I'm talking about. So that would've been helpful to know for sure.
Another one is probably patience. I sort of alluded to it in the previous one, but just be patient. It's going to be okay. I think because I'm an entrepreneur and I'm ambitious and I'm driven and I want to get stuff done, I have a hard time being patient. And sometimes time just needs to pass. Also, sometimes there isn't a good solution or there isn't the right answer, and a decision just needs to be made. But I think just holding the tension with faith that it will work itself out is really, really important. Because I think I stressed myself out a lot, wanting a solution fast. When truly what's required is patience.
Lisa Welchman:
I mean, we're recording this right now and who knows what will happen, how my comment will age, but we're recording this while the Twitter fiasco is heating up and everybody's wondering if Twitter's going to be here or there. I'm alluding a lot to what Andy and I were talking about before we pressed record. But we were talking about this, and I'm of an age where I've seen some things come and go online. It doesn't mean that you don't have to have an opinion about what's happening or that you don't have to have feelings about what's happening. But sometimes sort of standing still is good, just standing still, let the water flow over you for a second, see what's going on before you react. And I think that's really challenging sometimes in an organization and has been for me.
I think that some of that comes as you get older. I think it comes because you've seen a lot, you've seen a lot of things change over time. I have a lot of feeling for a lot of younger folks who maybe have built their career on Twitter on this platform and are really scared. They don't know how to be another way. They don't know how to communicate another way and can't know what's happening. But patience is important. I think patience and balance.
Amy Heymans:
And you made me think of the inner world versus the outer world. If the outer world is swirling, how do you keep that calm in your inner world? Because with that calm, you can lead from a place of balance. So managing that inner world is hugely important. And I wonder if truly that's what it's all about is through the journey, having calm in that inner world, not ignoring the outer world because again, we need to try to help each other and make an impact, but if that inner world is solid, then we can be in a position where we can really show up for the outer world and not get stuck in this world.
Andy Vitale:
That's awesome. What are some ways that people could get in touch with you or find out more about what you have going on?
Amy Heymans:
We are building an amazing design team at UnitedHealthcare. I'm just astounded at the level of brilliance of the designers that we have. I mean, it's just incredible. So we are hiring, so check out UnitedHealthcare careers for sure. But yeah, you can reach out to me on LinkedIn for sure. I'm pretty good about messaging back on LinkedIn. Thank you both so much. This was wonderful.
Lisa Welchman:
Yeah, it was great.
Andy Vitale:
Awesome.
Lisa Welchman:
Thanks for getting up at the crack of doom, both of you. I appreciate it.
Andy Vitale:
Thanks, Amy.